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Why I Believe Methylation Issues Are Associated With MC
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tex
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Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 30151
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2017 Jul 23 - 6:42 PM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:28 pm    Post subject: Why I Believe Methylation Issues Are Associated With MC Reply with quote

Hi All,

After devoting a lot of study and thought to this, here's why I believe that MC methylation issues are closely associated with MC in many (probably most) cases where histamine is an issue:

Compromised methylation (IOW a deficiency of methyfolate) interferes with the production of SAMe, and one of the functions of SAMe is to rid the body of excess histamines. Obviously, many of us have problems with excess histamine. This is the best explanation that I have see for why a condition of excess histamine is so common with MC.

And at the other extreme, if for some reason we are overmethylated, overmethylation also causes the symptoms of elevated histamine levels (itching, rash, etc.). I experienced that last summer, when I apparently became overmethylated.

Why does this happen? This is pure speculation of course, but it probably happens because MC imposes such a wide range of chemical changes in the body, curtailing or limiting the production of many enzymes, and even affecting hormonal production. The ability to affect the thyroid and other centers of hormone production means that MC wields the power to cause epigenetic changes, IOW it has the ability to change the way that certain genes are expressed. And of course that would provide a means of activating methylation issues, based on the existence of MTHFR gene mutations that so many of us have.

Does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Tex
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cowboy

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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tex
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Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 30151
User's local time:
2017 Jul 23 - 6:42 PM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Sat Apr 11, 2015 11:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As further evidence, I always wondered why histame almost never worked well for anyone here who tried it. Histame is sold as a DAO replacer and theoretically at least, it should eliminate left over/excess histamine from the body, and thereby prevent histamine from building up to troublesome levels in the body.

Likewise, virtually no one here seemed to derive any significant benefits from gastrocrom. Gastrocrom is sold as a mast cell stabilizer, intended to help prevent the inappropriate degranulation of mast cells, associated with mast cell activation disorder (MCAD).

These products sound good in theory, but in practice, they don't seem to work very well at all. In fact, simple antihistamines seem to work better than either one of them in the real world. That makes me wonder if treating the possible cause of the problem (poor methylation) might be much more effective.

Tex
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cowboy

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
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Joined: 21 Dec 2009

Posts: 6907
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2017 Jul 24 - 10:42 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, Yeast, Caesin, Soy, salad/raw veges and fruit
Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia

PostPosted: Mon Apr 13, 2015 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Agreed, they are sort of band aiding the issue, not dealing with the root cause, which is methylation issues....

Also, interupted methylation cycle could also explain the abnormal immune system and adrenal responses to triggers etc....
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Gabes Ryan

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
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ldubois7
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Joined: 19 Feb 2013

Posts: 1246
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2017 Jul 23 - 6:42 PM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, dairy, eggs, soy
Location: Pennsylvania

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So glad you started this new topic! Very interesting stuff!
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Linda :)

LC Oct. 2012
MTHFR gene mutation and many more....
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Erica P-G
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Joined: 08 Mar 2015

Posts: 1135
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2017 Jul 23 - 4:42 PM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, Dairy, Eggs, Soy, Tuna, Beef, Oat, Almonds, Walnuts
Location: WA State

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm bringing this topic back to life....I notice that I am exactly 2 years to the date in doing so!

I want to let those know that upon encouragement from Gabes to up my B6 (p5p active form) from 50 to 100mg along with my biotin, and B2 (riboflavin) I have done much much better in the histamine dept...in fact I have not used any Allegra this Spring (I am 2 years into healing as of this month).

I am not having the copious amounts of mucus like I am used to in all my years past!

I do Not have the MTHFR gene, but my husband does and he hasn't had the gut issues like I have and I haven't seen him have mucus issues either, and he has only been taking the thorne methyl-guard plus for 3/4 of a year now and I can see an improvement in his attitude, energy, and quality of life. Not sure if this has anything to do with my non-use of antihistamine but thought I would state it anyway. My husband has always dealt better in dealing with histamine than I ever have...which seems to contradict the methylation/MC theory a little bit. Perhaps because he is a County Road Dept worker who works outdoors a lot he has always gotten more VitD (and he doesn't have VDR issues uptaking it into his system as I do) and therefore that has been a contributing factor in his ability to stave off the potential histamine issue for him, who knows.
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To Succeed you have to Believe in something with such a passion that it becomes a Reality - Anita Roddick
Dx LC April 2012 had symptoms since Aug 2007
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Gabes-Apg
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Food Intolerances : Gluten, Yeast, Caesin, Soy, salad/raw veges and fruit
Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 2:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Erica
fantastic news that the increased dose of P5P has worked! woo hoo!
I too have neither of the main MTHFR gene snp's, but B6 deficiency (and lack of P5P) was/is a key element to most of my health issues/symptoms.
hope the improvements keep coming for you!

maybe copy the text of this post and add it to your post in the Success Stories area..
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Gabes Ryan

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
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Erica P-G
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Joined: 08 Mar 2015

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2017 Jul 23 - 4:42 PM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, Dairy, Eggs, Soy, Tuna, Beef, Oat, Almonds, Walnuts
Location: WA State

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks to you Gabes for suggesting it!

Also learning B vitamins are probably the most safe for us and I haven't noticed them talked about as much as of late so giving them a thrust back out into posting land. They seem to be doing the 'best' job by far this year.

I've posted it to my Success Stories Very Happy
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To Succeed you have to Believe in something with such a passion that it becomes a Reality - Anita Roddick
Dx LC April 2012 had symptoms since Aug 2007
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Gabes-Apg
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2017 Jul 24 - 10:42 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, Yeast, Caesin, Soy, salad/raw veges and fruit
Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

my observations is that it is a stage 2 type approach - first up Vit D3 and magnesium to reduce inflammation, and then start the active B's to balance methylation and improve cell health.
without good Vit D3 and magnesium levels the body can not absorb and process nutrients as good as it can..

I am thinking that for you it was only ?4 ?6 weeks of higher P5P dosage that provided this next level of improvement?
you might be able to do high dose one day, lower dose the next day, etc as your maintenance dose.
the good doses of P5P will also be helping with hormones etc too..
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Gabes Ryan

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
Dalai Lama
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Erica P-G
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Food Intolerances : Gluten, Dairy, Eggs, Soy, Tuna, Beef, Oat, Almonds, Walnuts
Location: WA State

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm thinking it was closer to the 4 week time frame....with my great level of VitD finally this Spring I think the B's had the right balance to be helpful.

Ironically I have been floating between the 50mg and 100mg now that I feel balanced Wink
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To Succeed you have to Believe in something with such a passion that it becomes a Reality - Anita Roddick
Dx LC April 2012 had symptoms since Aug 2007
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Gabes-Apg
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Food Intolerances : Gluten, Yeast, Caesin, Soy, salad/raw veges and fruit
Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

great minds think alike!!
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Gabes Ryan

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
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crervin
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Joined: 14 Jul 2015

Posts: 645
User's local time:
2017 Jul 23 - 7:42 PM


Food Intolerances : gluten, chicken eggs, guar gum, corn, maple syrup, fruit, histamines
Location: Chattanooga, TN

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been in a flare since returning from my spring break trip, I believe due to high pollen. So glad to see this post. Sadly I can't take B's orally or anything else for that matter, but I'm using the B complex patch. I'm so in hopes this helps soon. I wished i knew how much I was really absorbing from these. I've often thought of using 2 at a time.....only time will tell. Hopefully since the rain came in, maybe my gut will be better.
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Martha E.

Philippians 4:13

Jul 2008 took Clindamycin for a Sinus infection that forever changed my life
Dec 2014 MC Dx
Jul 15, 2015 Elimination Diet
Aug 17, 2015 Enterolab Test
Dec 2015 Reflux
Sept 2016 IC
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Gabes-Apg
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Food Intolerances : Gluten, Yeast, Caesin, Soy, salad/raw veges and fruit
Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Martha
what B products (type of B and brand etc) have you tried?
what dosages did you do??
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Gabes Ryan

"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
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crervin
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Joined: 14 Jul 2015

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2017 Jul 23 - 7:42 PM


Food Intolerances : gluten, chicken eggs, guar gum, corn, maple syrup, fruit, histamines
Location: Chattanooga, TN

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gabes,
I've tried Thorne P5P (caused pelvic pain and frequent urination feeling), Source Naturals METHYL cobalamin (caused extreme headache), and 2 different sublingual B-12s (i gave those to my mom, they caused gas/gut upset).

I'm having trouble taking antihistamines too, due to my bladder and gut. I tried allegra the other day for the first time, couldn't get off the toilet from strange fluorescent WD. After reading Tex's latest post, I think I'll stay off of those unless using periodically. I've wasted so much money on supplements and antihistamines. I'm sure we all have!

My bladder is so delicate now. I've been drinking decaf. coffee lately and now notice my bladder trembles shortly after drinking it. Going to stop that in the am.

My gut and bladder are best when I don't take anything orally and only drink water.... Rolling Eyes

Maybe these B complex patches overtime will help. Praise God, yesterday after stopping all antihistamines I've been trying and thanks to the torential rainfall this weekend, my BM was back to normal after a month. Just hope the pollen slows down....
_________________
Martha E.

Philippians 4:13

Jul 2008 took Clindamycin for a Sinus infection that forever changed my life
Dec 2014 MC Dx
Jul 15, 2015 Elimination Diet
Aug 17, 2015 Enterolab Test
Dec 2015 Reflux
Sept 2016 IC
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crervin
Rockhopper Penguin
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unknown IP

Joined: 14 Jul 2015

Posts: 645
User's local time:
2017 Jul 23 - 7:42 PM


Food Intolerances : gluten, chicken eggs, guar gum, corn, maple syrup, fruit, histamines
Location: Chattanooga, TN

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

content://media/external/file/49274


Here are the ingredients in the patch...
_________________
Martha E.

Philippians 4:13

Jul 2008 took Clindamycin for a Sinus infection that forever changed my life
Dec 2014 MC Dx
Jul 15, 2015 Elimination Diet
Aug 17, 2015 Enterolab Test
Dec 2015 Reflux
Sept 2016 IC
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tex
Site Admin
Site Admin


Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 30151
User's local time:
2017 Jul 23 - 6:42 PM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Wed Apr 26, 2017 7:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's very potent. The patch provides more B-6 than Metanx, 120 times as much folate, and 500 times as much B-12.

Tex
_________________
cowboy

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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