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tex
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Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 30597
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 2:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 12:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laine,

You might be able to gain some insight from the article at the following link:

A variant of FGF19 for treatment of disorders of cholestasis and bile acid metabolism

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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HockeyMom
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Joined: 01 Oct 2011

Posts: 190
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 1:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, dairy, soy, rice, chicken, almond, etc/etc/etc/etc...
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Sep 13, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Tex, I sort of spent the morning reading articles about this. Sort of tough to do much around here with the carpet guys in the house and me basically not being able to get away from the downstairs toilet!!!

Laine Sad
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HockeyMom
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Joined: 01 Oct 2011

Posts: 190
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2017 Oct 22 - 1:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, dairy, soy, rice, chicken, almond, etc/etc/etc/etc...
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link Gabes, I seriously have trouble pulling up anything from the archives.....My bad, or me an idiot!!! I'm not sure I understand the whole deal but oh well. I really have never had the fatigue that everyone talks about. .... I looked at the million dollar blood/saliva work up that my internal med Dr did this summer...little stood out. I can't find the page where it said I was low in copper, but copper was the only thing he started me on. And one of the articles I read from those posts said high copper lowers dopamine and increases norepinephrine and increases anxiety and depression, especially in women. But I was low??? And I was crazy anxious when I had those tests done. His concern was more why my cortisol levels were off the chart on the overnight/first thing in the morning sample...dropped down to normal during the day.

And another article was talking about cholestyramine being an issue I assume from what it depletes (fat solubles, etc.). Wow, just can't win on this can I?? I switched brands to Par last week...am taking a ton of it and still having liquid diarrhea. Maybe slowing down in the frequency department as didn't have a complete blow out last night before bed like I've been doing for the past week and a half...hopefully that is going in the right direction. I have a Dr's appt with PCP this afternoon which is required for the insurance/time off of work. I will bring in my own stool samples in sterile containers (from work), so that I don't have to have my brother drop samples off again for me. I haven't been out of this house in 11 days, hope this goes ok.

Laine


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HockeyMom
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Joined: 01 Oct 2011

Posts: 190
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 1:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, dairy, soy, rice, chicken, almond, etc/etc/etc/etc...
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, and I looked at a few other things from my blood tests...

Folate 12.2 ng/mL
Vit D 89
Vit B12 pg/mL >20000

I was taking 6,000 Vit D at that point, dropped back to 5,000 after that.
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Pam V
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Joined: 11 Jun 2017
Posts: 47
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 3:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, Casein, Soy and Egg
Location: Boston, MA

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 10:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Laine -

My mom passed in 2010 at the age of 96 - I have no question that she also had (undiagnosed) MC. I recall her stomach making loud gurgling noises and her having sensitivities to various foods. My Mom was the daughter of Finnish immigrants so there is a Scandinavian link with my family also...

Pam
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tex
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Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 30597
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 2:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laine,

Posting those test results gives me a clue to your problem. Unless that B-12 test is based on some sort of unusually high range, your B-12 score suggests that you were either taking massive daily doses of B-12 when you had that test, or you have serious methylation issues. Your body apparently is not able to convert the inactive form of B-12 into the active form so that you can use it, resulting in a B-12 buildup.

One of the consequences of untreated methylation issues is a possible toxic buildup of metals. This is what is causing your high copper level (and no telling what else). This can upset the zinc/copper ratio which is somewhat critical for health. I'm not an expert on this, but I suspect it's the cause of all your anxiety and your diarrhea and other digestive symptoms. Please read the article at this link:

Do You Have A Copper and Zinc Imbalance?

You're welcome.

Tex
_________________
cowboy

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Gabes-Apg
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Joined: 21 Dec 2009

Posts: 7136
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 6:24 PM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, Yeast, Caesin, Soy, salad/raw veges and fruit
Location: Hunter Valley NSW Australia

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Totally agree with what Tex has said above.

methylation issues coupled with excess metals like copper etc are big contributors to anxiety, gut issues etc

One of my health issues is Pyrrole where zinc and B6 become very depleted and allow metals like copper to become toxic. I have just spent 3 years clearing excess copper (big contributor to previous anxiety issues)

low zinc and high copper/metals also causes issues with adrenals that the body can not moderate adrenal reactions to stress etc.

another good article that explains this
https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/menta...als-and-the-mind/
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"Anything that contradicts experience and logic should be abandoned"
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HockeyMom
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Joined: 01 Oct 2011

Posts: 190
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 1:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, dairy, soy, rice, chicken, almond, etc/etc/etc/etc...
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 4:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Tex-
The lab that did the blood work is Vibrant America. Actually it didn't say my B12 level was high...it says it was in the "in control range". And what I mean is that it doesn't give me a number, just >2000 (pg/mL)...and the references say "in control range is greater than/equal to 211...high risk range less than/equal to 210". And that is exact quote...missing zeros here or something?? And all I am taking for B12 is Jarrow Methylcobalamin 1,000mcg. Wow, is that a crazy number or what???

And he said my copper was LOW, not high. So he started me on 2mg copper per day. Which I have been taking since early June. I take a Zinc melty daily which has 13mg of zinc. I've been taking that for years, really added it to my regime when I had that huge gum graft done in July of 2014...wanted it to heal up.

Prior to all this craziness with my husband's illness/death and subsequent stress/nuttiness, I just had MC issues but NEVER would I have said anxiety issues EVER. So, what is up???

Laine
Feeling more overwhelmed than ever guys... Sad
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HockeyMom
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Posts: 190
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2017 Oct 22 - 1:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, dairy, soy, rice, chicken, almond, etc/etc/etc/etc...
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PS...went to see PCP today. Get to the building and use the toilet prior to the visit. First time in about a month that I had something that resembled pebble poop initially, then turned to liquid diarrhea. So, maybe the changed brand on cholestyramine is helping/starting to kick in...

Now I am freaked out about all this stuff. I wonder if they have some different sort of measuring standard with the B12 at that lab...it's pg/mL....what is that? Pico???

I will stop the copper if you think I should and try and get ahold of him. This guy is all over blood levels and stuff so I really don't think it would be something that he would overlook... and the lab puts it in the "in control" category, just like they did with the folate and Vit D which are listed right above them...

Laine...
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tex
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Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 30597
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 2:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laine wrote:
So he started me on 2mg copper per day.


Zeros matter. when you wrote >20000, I said bingo. But taking copper without taking zinc is the same thing (in the long run) as too much copper. It creates an imbalance against zinc. Taking copper without taking zinc CREATES a zinc deficiency. I still believe this is a big part of your problem.

Also, you wrote:
I switched brands to Par last week


I hope you meant to say that you switched to the Sandoz brand.

Tex
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cowboy

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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HockeyMom
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Posts: 190
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 1:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, dairy, soy, rice, chicken, almond, etc/etc/etc/etc...
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Tue Sep 19, 2017 5:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok, I am going crazy and a bad typist!!! That should be >2000, not 20,000!!!!! Not that that is much better eh???

And yes, Sandoz brand.

Whew....

Laine Shocked
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HockeyMom
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Posts: 190
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2017 Oct 22 - 1:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, dairy, soy, rice, chicken, almond, etc/etc/etc/etc...
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just left the internal med Dr a voice mail about the copper and the high Vit B12 level...again, it was >2,000 (not 20,000....that was adding an extra zero on my part..). I went over all those lab results again and can't find a reference to copper anywhere!!!

All this is making me more anxious!!! And I felt like I was just getting a handle on the anxious thing!!!

Laine Shocked
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tex
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Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 30597
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 2:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laine,

Over 2,000 could be a lot of numbers. I could be wrong but I believe that most people who have methylation issues typically show a B-12 result between 1,000 and 2,000. The "normal" range runs up to around 900 ng/mL. IOW most people with methylation issues show a slightly high result. Your doctor may not be familiar with recognizing and treating methylation issues. That would be typical, not at all unusual.

Anytime you take supplemental copper, you need to take a supplement that provides at least 10 times as much zinc as copper in order to keep the long-term balance about right. A reasonable supplement would be about 30 mg of zinc per day with about 3 mg of copper.

Tex
_________________
cowboy

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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HockeyMom
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Joined: 01 Oct 2011

Posts: 190
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 1:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, dairy, soy, rice, chicken, almond, etc/etc/etc/etc...
Location: Colorado

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 11:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tex-
More solidish poop this am, then degenerated...but think we are going in the right direction with the Sandoz brand cholestyramine.

Looking over this lab report again this am and waiting for a return call from the DR. What I don't understand is that the Folate and Vit D are measured in ng/mL and have actual numbers for results. The Vit B12 is measure in pg/mL and just says "in control". If I am doing the conversion right, 2000 pg/mL is just 2 ng/mL right??? So that would be really low according to their "in control" range being greater/equal to 211. Am I missing something here? All 3 of these say they are "in control" as far as ranges go...

Laine
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tex
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Joined: 24 May 2005

Posts: 30597
User's local time:
2017 Oct 22 - 2:24 AM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Wed Sep 20, 2017 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Laine,

I agree that's a good sign. When the first BM of the day looks better, that's a sign of healing progress.

I'm as confused as you are over their B-12 test numbers and designations. Maybe they use an unconventional test method. shrug

Tex
_________________
cowboy

It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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