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BARF (otherwise known as a dog diet)

 
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Polly
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Food Intolerances : gluten, dairy, soy, corn, yeast, chocolate, tomato, white potato, celery, sesame, carrot, yellow squash, lamb, pork, mango, strawberry, almond, cashew, vanilla, grapefruit, raspberry, avocado, mustard, paprika, cauliflower, cucumber, plum, and more!
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 10:17 am    Post subject: BARF (otherwise known as a dog diet) Reply with quote

Hiya Gang!

Has anyone heard of the BARF diet for dogs? It stands for "bones and raw meat". There are some who maintain that this original diet of the wolf (from which all dogs are descended) is the healthiest diet for dogs.

Indeed, most dogs today are fed commercial dog food which consists mainly of grain - corn in particular. Apparently wolves and dogs do not have any innate mechanisms to be able to digest grains. The only grains in their diet in the wild comes from eating the GI tracts of smaller animals like rabbits that have already predigested the grains.

Vets are alarmed at the huge increases in the rates of cancer and autoimmune (AI) diseases in dogs and some wonder if grain could be the culprit. (Some also wonder if over-immunization of pets could be responsible, too - have you noticed that vets recently have greatly reduced the number of vaccines they recommend?) An added concern is that the majority of corn raised in this country is infected with afflatoxin ( a subject Wayne knows a lot about).

My golden retriever, Rusty, deveoped an AI disease at age 8 - hypoparathyroidism. About 6 mos. ago I started him on the BARF diet. Luckily, we have a company here in MD that makes this food for dogs and I can get it frozen at my local Pet Depot. It is expensive, but you could make it at home much more cheaply. The food contains meat (you can get beef, lamb, chicken, turkey, goat, etc.) and veggies and fruits - just like we eat. They even add flax seeds and flax seed oil as an antiinflammatory. No grains at all. Anyway, Rusty is now 9 1/2 and has never been healthier. He is skinny, walks/runs or swims 3-4 miles every day, has a beautiful coat, and seems to be THRIVING. I read where the bull terrier, Rufus, who won the Westminster dog show a few weeks ago is on the BARF diet.

Apparently bones are good for dogs, so long as they have not been heated/cooked. That is the only time they are likely to splinter and cause damage.

Rusty has to take a vitamin D pill every day (which can cause elevated calcium and therefore kidney damage), and in fact, after a year on medication, two of his kidney tests were elevated. Since the BARF diet, they are back to normal. How about that?

Interesting, but not surprising, is the fact that most vets still push the grain diets for dogs. They are nutritionally fortified to be complete, they say. But how can something that is made to be able to have a shelf life of YEARS be healthy? It HAS to be majorly fortified because there is no nutrition that dogs need in grains. And, don't a lot of vets get a kickback for selling the upscale grain-based dog foods?

Sorry, didn't mean to write a book. But it is interesting food for thought, I think, with definite parallels to the recent thinking that grains may not be healthy for many humans. I read that evidence of AI diseases in paleolithic (hunter-gatherers) human remains cannot be found, but can be found when examining the remains/fossils of neolithic people (those who farmed and ate grains).

Love,

Polly
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 11:47 am    Post subject: . Reply with quote

Hi Polly,

Our two spoilied Cavaliers were adopted from a lady that fed them the Barf diet. A lot of "elite dog" owners (who show dogs) feed their pets this way. We kind of got away from it because of the cost, but their coats don't look as good, and one has gotten pretty overweight. So I've been going back to the original diet, and cutting their dry food way back. I think the key is to give them very low fat meat, (because I'm pretty sure a wildebeast in the wild had no fat on it) and vegetables to make up for what the animals that they're eating now didn't get themselves. Did that make sense?

Love, Marsha

Hey, I just went to Dr. Weil's website to look at his recommendations for vitamins, and especially his suppliments. They're interesting. I don't know if they're appropriate for people like us with all the intolerences, but still interesting.
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tex
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Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Tue Mar 14, 2006 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Polly,

No question about it, the ancient diet is a far healthier diet for dogs, than a diet that includes grains, especially significant amounts of grains. (Marsha, I think you will find that wolves in the wild will not eat vegies, unless maybe they are starving to death. Coyotes, on the other hand, are omnivarous, and will eat virtually anything, including corn, straight out of the fields).

The problem here is the same as for humans--if all dogs decide to go on a paleo diet, we will quickly disover that the world population of canines is waaaaaaaaaay too high. In that scenario, BARF rations would quickly become either unaffordable, or unavailable. Bear in mind that dogs on a BARF diet, are, to some extent, in competition with humans on a paleo diet. IOW, if BARF supples become greatly depleted, then meat would have to be diverted from the supply available for humans, (which, presumably, would already be in excessively short supply, if all humans choose to adopt the paleo diet.

It's a simple matter of supply and demand. No one knows how many dogs exist in the world today, but the population is almost certainly in excess of 100,000,000. That's a lot of meat and bones that would have to be rounded up every day, isn't it.

As in the case of the paleo diet choice for humans, lets hope that all dogs don't jump on the bandwagon with the BARF diet, 'cause if they do, they will overload and break down that wagon in virtually no time at all.

Love,
Wayne

P S Regarding the aflatoxin problem, all corn used for any purpose which eventually puts it into the food or feed chain, is checked for aflatoxin and regulated. Corn used for dog food is regulated at the same level as for human consumption in the U. S., 20 ppb max. There are however, many other mycotoxins in grains, some of which probably haven't even been discovered yet, that could be causing problems for all species that consume those susceptable grains.

Back about ten years ago, there was a big shakeup when a local major producer of dog food, (they made dogfood for many other companies, under many different big-name brands), was found to be using corn contaminated with illegal amounts of aflatoxin. Apparently, the problem was known to numerous individuals in the company, because lawsuits were lost, a number of heads rolled, and many business contracts were lost, before the dust settled.
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Matthew
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This concept of dogs eating grains was a good part of DogtorJ’s hypothesis in in his article “The Answer” and other writings.

It is worth going back and reading. Rereading it was interesting in regards to time, tide and my own experience.

On the same site be sure to check out “Food Intolerance's in Animals and Man” and “Viruses, Friend or Foe” for a very interesting point of view on lectins stimulating viruses.

Check it out or reread it @

http://dogtorj.tripod.com./

Matthew
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tex
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2017 Sep 26 - 12:18 PM


Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2006 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey, Thanks, Matthew,

I haven't read the "Food Intolerances" article yet, but the "Viruses" article is a brand new entry, and it's fantastic.

Reading all this is going to keep me busy for a while.

Wayne
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Polly
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Food Intolerances : gluten, dairy, soy, corn, yeast, chocolate, tomato, white potato, celery, sesame, carrot, yellow squash, lamb, pork, mango, strawberry, almond, cashew, vanilla, grapefruit, raspberry, avocado, mustard, paprika, cauliflower, cucumber, plum, and more!
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, thanks Matt, for reminding us about the Dogtor! I had forgotten about him, and it's good to have the reference again. I spent several hours being fascinated on his website last night and didn't go to bed until 2:30 AM. Thanks a lot! LOL! I even sent him an email telling him all about me and my dog.

Love,

Polly
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Polly
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Food Intolerances : gluten, dairy, soy, corn, yeast, chocolate, tomato, white potato, celery, sesame, carrot, yellow squash, lamb, pork, mango, strawberry, almond, cashew, vanilla, grapefruit, raspberry, avocado, mustard, paprika, cauliflower, cucumber, plum, and more!
Location: Maryland

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Guess what! I already got a response from Dogtorj!

I am going to cut and paste the email I sent him as well as his response. Even though it is lengthy, I think those of you who are interested in this thread might like to see it. Especially Marsha, since he specifically refers to your spaniels.......I highlighted it in red to flag it for you.

Love,

Polly

My email:

Hi Dogtorj!

I just discovered your website and am thrilled! I will be reading every word, you can be sure.

I am a pediatrician who was diagnosed with an inflammatory bowel disease called microscopic colitis 5 years ago. I discovered that multiple food intolerances were the cause of my problems. I am intolerant of gluten, dairy, corn, soy, yeast, citrus and tomatoes, and chocolate. If I avoid all of my triggers I am as healthy as I've ever been and do not need any medication. Recently I've been fine-tuning my diet and have discovered that I truly have the most energy and well-being on the paleolithic diet. So, I am now a "cavewoman" and also avoid all other grains, potatoes, and legumes.

I have a 9 year old golden retriever named Rusty who developed hypoparathyroidism 2 years ago. He actually had seizures due to tetany before diagnosis. Since diagnosis, he has been treated with daily calcitriol and has done very well. However, about 6 months ago his blood calcium had crept up a little (high range of normal) and 2 of his kidney function tests were abnormal - urine specific gravity and BUN. I began to wonder if his problems could be autoimmune and food related (like my own!), so I combed the internet and learned about the BARF diet. He has been on raw food and bones now for 6 months and has never looked better! He runs 3-4 miles a day and swims many days too. The best news was that after 3 months of this diet, his abnormal kidney values had returned to normal.

My vet internist is a wonderful lady, but is not enamored of the BARF diet. I know she thinks I'm crazy when I attribute Rusty's health to it, but she just doesn't understand. She says that raw diets have been analyzed and found to be lacking in nutrients, blah, blah, blah. BTW, I use Aunt Jeni's commercail raw food, which was developed by animal nutritionists.

Anyway, I thought you'd be interersted in hearing the story of me and my dog. Good luck spreading the word!
We need as many folks as possible to carry this flag, don't we?

Sincerely,

Polly Roberts, M.D.

Dogtorj's response:

Hi Dr. Polly,

It's great to hear from you. I am always especially pleased to hear from another member of one of the medical professions. My work has been mostly with lay people, as I got tired of beating my head against that glass ceiling that separates people like you and I from the rest of our colleagues. Isn't it amazing that we were so inadequately trained in this area? Isn't it incredible that the concept of food intolerance holds the answer to so many of our medical questions? How can anyone who is looking for answers not feel that they have had a major "revelation" when they come across this kind of information. I still pinch myself everyday to make sure I am not dreaming. :)

The story of Rusty is a great one. I have not had a case of clinical hypoparathyroidism since I learned all of this. It makes perfect sense though, doesn't it? 95% of our vitamin D activity tales place in the first 1/3 of the duodenum, where the earliest and most significant damage is done. Therefore, celiacs, et al will have significant osteoporosis problems later in life. BUT before that, there are plenty of other signs of calcium metabolism problems, such as growth abnormalities, juvenile bone diseases, and signs of "subclinical hypoparathyroidism". Celiacs are notoriously short-thighed. The most food allergic dogs have the worst juvenile bone diseases (e.g. hip and elbow dysplasia), premature spinal problems, heart valve issues, and premature cruciate ligament ruptures. With calcium and vitamin C being absorbed by this area as well as trace minerals (like boron), B complex and more, no wonder we are a disaster by the time we reach 40 (or the dogs reach 5-7). Our collagen never forms properly and what does form becomes subject to major immune responses down the road.

This is the latest thing I have been studying which is really getting interesting...immune-mediated disease aimed at collagen. You are probably familiar with Ehler's-Danlos syndrome, the collagen disease. You may also know that the literature talks about an "acquired form". In vet medicine, it becomes painfully clear that collagen becomes a target for "autoimmune" disorders (a term I no longer use due to its implication that the immune system attacks the body for no reason, which is clearly not the case). We are well aware of many other tissues that become targets of immune-mediated attacks, but no one seems to want to talk about cruciate ligaments, rotator cuffs, and other supportive structures being subject to the same assault. BUT, when you see the patterns we see in the dog, it become all too clear that it is occurring. The cruciates start popping between 5-7 years in typical breeds...the usual suspects...right at the same time the others in their "pack" are having other immune-mediated diseases...AIHI, ATP, liver disease, glomerulonephritis, and more. Others are developing heart murmurs at that same time while the worst...the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel...has a complete blow-out of its mitral valve and dies of acute congestive heart failure at age 5. What happened? His collagen failed. His little chordae tendonae all gave up the ghost at one time...at age 5...at the same age everything else is going on in other breeds. And the Cavie is one of the mostly food allergic breeds I see, the now painfully obvious precursor to all of this failure.
All we need to see is the true function of the duodenum (the absorption of all of these nutrients) and the four primary foods that damage it. Wow! The rest falls into place. What can't be related to this process??? Once we see what drives the immune system and what maintains the health and integrity of every tissue in the body, it becomes pretty much a no brainer doesn't it?

So, HOW do we get our colleagues to see this simple and obvious fact? How do we change the unbelievable fact that the vast majority of them have no clue about what we both now know? How can it be that I have yet to meet a doctor or vet that has been able to tell me what the duodenum absorbs, much less the things that damage it? Do we simply take it to the public and let them storm the Bastille with this information are is there hope that the medical profession will see all of this in the very near future and the paradigm shift that has started will then take place? The great thing is that the awareness of celiac disease is rising rapidly. It will serve as the example, from which they will see the truth about dairy (casein), soy, and corn. How cool is that? :)

Thanks so much for writing. Please keep in touch. And....keep fighting the good fight! :):):)


John

John B. Symes, D.V.M (aka "Dogtor J.")
www.dogtorj.net
(Read: Food Intolerance- Man and Animals versus Gluten, Casein, Soy, and Corn...OR...How We Won the Battle of Helm's Deep" http://www.dogtorj.net/id1.html)
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tex
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Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 10:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, Polly,

That is impressive, isn't it. There's so much new information here, I feel kinda like I just woke up on another planet, and I'm not sure exactly where I should start, in order to begin a new lifestyle.

Hey, you had the same problem that I had last night. I got to bed after 2, also. LOL.

Love,
Wayne
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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Matthew
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2006 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polly and Wayne

Didn't intend to keep you both up all night. LOL.

I could not stop reading either and ever since starting to read the new topics the other night I have been going back to try and absorb everything he has come up with.

In that it is so interesting we might start a new thread on this.

Love

Matthew

Try to get some sleep tonight Razz
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Mars
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

WOW...........what an interesting site! Look at the time of this post: 1:12 a.m. YIKES!!!!!!

ROFL really, I'm off work tomorrow but heading to bed!

Anyways, thanks for the site Matthew - totally awesome!

Mars
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 17, 2006 10:46 am    Post subject: . Reply with quote

Hi there,

A long time ago, before there was this site, I sent him an email, which he promptly answered. What a nice man!! He must be a very high energy person. ..Love, Marsha

Oh, and Tex: since my dog always thinks she's starving, that explains why she like carrots. I have never seen a dog live for food the way she does. Sometimes she sleeps in front of the fridge, just to make sure she doesn't miss it being opened.
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kate_ce1995
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, you know all animals are about to starve at any minute even if there are kibbles in the dish! Laughing Laughing At least that's what my cats tell me every day.

I'll have to check out his site, but the description of collegen and such...WOW. Maybe I've found my "cure' for cheating on the diet. The joint stiffness and such I get when I over indulge in gluten is something else. When I read the stuff about damage and lack of absorbtion of nutrients, I get scared about what all I'm doing to my body. I've been through so much as it is!

You guys sure know how to find interesting stuff out.
Katy
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tex
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Food Intolerances : Gluten, casein, soy, and avenin, (avenin is the prolamin in oats, which is equivalent to the gluten in wheat), beef, grapes, peanuts, cashews, almonds, (but nut butters seem OK except for peanuts), citric acid, chocolate, and agar.
Location: Central Texas

PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marsha,

I suspect you're right about Dogtorj being a high energy individual. I'd hate to have to try to keep up with him for a week, but I'll bet it would be a very interesting experience. It sounds like your dog has figured out where the snacks come from, and she's conditioned herself to make sure she doesn't miss one. I thought only cats did that.


Katy,

Ain't it the truth. My cats live on the outside, (well, mostly in a garage, actually), and I keep their chow in a storeroom close to where I feed them. I have to be careful that I don't step on any of them, any time I go to that storeroom for any reason. They can barely get through eating, and if I go back to that storeroom door, they'll come flying back over there, and go through their "starving" performance again. LOL.

Yep, Dogtorj is a wealth of information, and it's tough to find fault with what he says. I think we discussed his old website briefly, back on the old board. I'm thinking that Karen originally found it, but I could be wrong.

Tex
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It is suspected that some of the hardest material known to science can be found in the skulls of GI specialists who insist that diet has nothing to do with the treatment of microscopic colitis.
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kate_ce1995
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

HA HA, Wayne! Sounds like my guys. I think Tigs gains weight in the spring because he likes a few bites of kibbles every time he comes in from outside and this time of year he goes out, gets cold, comes in, eats, asks to go out, goes out, gets cold, comes in, eats.....well you get the picture. Half the time we can't remember what side of the door he is on! I've been known to whistle outside for him only to find him stretching his way into the kitchen from some sleeping spot inside and I'll have no recollection of having let him in!

Katy
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Erica P-G
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Food Intolerances : Gluten, Dairy, Eggs, Soy, Tuna, Beef, Oat, Almonds, Walnuts
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 08, 2016 8:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Such an incredible post here, I so wish I had known about this diet for dogs with allergies.

We raised a dog whose nose peeled all the time, got better during the winter months and then peeled and was sore most of the year. Was told he had allergies/or allergic to himself. What I am going thru right now makes complete sense to how we should have been feeding our dog before 2013 when he had to be put down due to a bad heart with fluid building around it.

I've learned so much on this site. I sure hope more of what we are living and experiencing this information makes its way out into the mainstream world....way too many people are in the dark about their and their pets health.

Thankfully with it being year 2016 I see more dog foods starting to become Grain Free...yes it is a bit more expensive, but the flip side is you get to spend more quality time with your pet, and less vet visits.

Thanks for this post Polly! Even if you created it in 2006!
Cheers
Erica
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